Defence's expert witness says mental illness only motive for Fredericton shooting, trial hears

A psychiatrist who interviewed Matthew Raymond multiple times says Raymond's mental illness reached a crescendo in August of 2018, and his mind "snapped" after months of delusional and disordered thinking.

Dr. Julian Gojer told the jury Thursday that Raymond's mental state when he killed four people meets all three criteria for the not-criminally-responsible defence: He had a mental illness, he couldn't appreciate the nature and consequences of his actions, and he couldn't know that what he was doing was wrong.

"It's a very sad situation. Four people lost their life because of the actions of a deranged man," Gojer said.

Dr. Julian Gojer testified Wednesday he believes Matthew Raymond was delusional the day he shot and killed Donnie Robichaud and Bobbie Lee Wright from his apartment at 237 Brookside Dr., then Fredericton constables Sara Burns and Robb Costello when they responded to calls of shots fired on Aug. 10, 2018.

Raymond has pleaded not guilty, and his defence team is arguing he was not criminally responsible for the shooting on account of a mental illness. Raymond previously testified he thought the end times had come and he was shooting demons, not humans, to defend himself.

Gojer said he diagnosed Raymond with schizophrenia, and found he had delusions from at least 2017 onwards.

Gojer said what Raymond did was "completely different" from how people described him before 2017.

"Something switches in his brain. His mind suddenly adopts several" delusional ideas, Gojer said. 

Gojer said after interviewing Raymond several times, interviewing his family and reviewing a "wealth" of electronic and physical evidence, he believed the situation in his mind was getting worse with each passing day before Aug. 10.

"He was getting more psychotic," Gojer said. 

The court previously saw hundreds of pages of calculations using occult numbers done by Raymond on the days leading up to the shooting. He did the calculations for hours, after barricading his door because he felt the "end times" had come.

Gojer described the calculations as the writings of "a deranged mind, a mind that has snapped."

Gojer said Raymond didn't tell him about his belief in demons until Oct. 4, 2020. He said Raymond was keeping this information from him, against "his own best interest," because he was still delusional. 

"Six or seven months of antipsychotic treatment had softened the illness sufficiently to let this person acknowledge what happened," Gojer said.

However, he said he didn't need Raymond to tell him this, as he'd already seen the evidence.

"Mr. Raymond telling me on Oct. 4 that there were demons is simply confirming what I already know," Gojer said.

'Does he feel remorse?'

The Crown and defence have agreed Raymond had a mental illness at the time of the shooting, meaning to get a not-guilty verdict, the defence must prove to the jury, on a balance of probabilities, that Raymond's mental illness either stopped him from knowing the nature and consequences of his actions, or knowing what he was doing was wrong.

Gojer said it's his opinion that Raymond could do neither on Aug. 10, 2018.

"This man lacked that capacity [of knowing] what he was doing ... That he was picking up a gun and shooting human beings," Gojer said.

Gojer said if there's a thought disorder, as he saw in Raymond, the person also can't weigh the right or wrong of his actions.

"He was far gone. His mind was beriddled with numbers ... this is a person who believed he was doing god's work," he said. "He's acting from a totally deranged perspective. A mind that had snapped ... There was no belief that he was doing something wrong. Morally wrong, or legally wrong."

Gojer said because his delusions made him believe he was shooting demons, that might have an impact on his behaviour after, including not showing any emotion when he was interviewed by police in hospital after he was shot and arrested.

"Does he feel remorse? Why does he feel remorse if he's killing demons? He should feel overjoyed, doing god's work ... That's why you see less emotion, less of a reaction."

He said Raymond did show emotion when he testified because he was realizing what he did after months of treatment.

Gojer also testified that after weighing the evidence and considering terrorism, political, domestic, and vengeful motives, he does not believe Raymond would have shot the four people if he wasn't mentally ill.

"The mental illness motive is staring at you in the face, it's staring at myself in the face," Gojer said. "But for a mental illness, this event would not have happened," Gojer says.

Gojer says if Raymond had treatment at an early stage, the shooting would have been prevented, but Raymond did not have insight into his illness and did not believe he was ill.

Gojer said after seeing Raymond's testimony he has concerns that he still doesn't have insight into his illness. In his testimony Raymond said he's sure he heard a child say "come out and play, baby" even after the child's father said he can't speak English. Raymond was also sure he heard banging on the walls of his apartment and on his door at night.

"I got a sense that he still believes all that is real and it happened," Gojer said.

Raymond was cross examined Monday and Tuesday, where he said repeatedly he knew opening fire would kill, but he thought he was killing demons.

Gojer is expected to be the final defence witness. Court is planning to hear final arguments and the charge to the jury next week.

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