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The AIH Transcript for February 10, 2020

Hosts: Helen Mann and Chris Howden

Prologue

HELEN MANN: Hello, I'm Helen Mann, sitting in for Carol off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight...

HM: Biden, his time, Iowa didn't go well. He's polling badly in New Hampshire --- but our guest says we shouldn't count out Joe Biden just yet.

CH: I'll take "Coming full circle" for 100, Alex. As a young girl, she taught herself English by watching Jeopardy! Now she's all grown up and a contestant on the show.

HM: A game piece of history. Archaeologists have found a thousand year old glass artifact on an island off the English coast, our guest says it's likely a piece from an ancient board game.

CH: From disarming to disarmed. An evil looking tree in England has terrorized locals for generations with its two massive branches that look like monster claws, that is until a storm ripped its limbs clean off.

HM: Signs of the times. Polish towns declare themselves LGBTQ free, but local politicians there weren't counting on a local artist exposing the new policy by simply putting it on a sign for all to see.

CH: And Newfoundland and Labrador says it has a plan to keep electricity bills from soaring as it continues to deal with followed from a troubled energy project, but our guest says people in the province may end up on the hook anyway. As It Happens. The Monday Edition. Radio that knows with great power comes great responsibility.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Democratic primary: New Hampshire

Democratic primary: New Hampshire

Guest: Andrew Feldman

CH: Things did not go Joe Biden's way during the Iowa caucuses. And they haven't gone great for him since either. But tomorrow's a new day in a new state: New Hampshire. As the Democratic Party's candidates for president head into that primary contest, Barack Obama's former vice president is hoping to turn things around. Mr. Biden's support has been dropping steadily since his fourth place finish in Iowa last week. Bernie Sanders and Pete Buttigieg, meanwhile, are surging in most polls. Andrew Feldman is a Democratic political consultant and the founder of Feldman Strategies. He's also a former volunteer for Joe Biden back when he was a primary candidate in 2007. We reached Mr. Feldman in Washington, D.C.

HM: Mr. Feldman, Joe Biden finished a distant fourth in Iowa. What will it mean for his campaign if things go just as badly in New Hampshire?

ANDREW FELDMAN: Well, look, no one is expecting Joe Biden to win in New Hampshire. What, we have to understand is that both Iowa and New Hampshire are not reflective of the larger electorate in the Democratic primary. When we move beyond New Hampshire, we go to Nevada, and Nevada is heavily Latino state. Then you go to South Carolina, where the majority of voters are African-American. So the big question for Joe Biden is, if he loses badly tomorrow night, can he hang on to his support among people of colour? If we start to see that that support is slipping, then his campaign's in real trouble. It's a little too early to tell. But what I can tell you is, him not doing well in New Hampshire coming off a bad performance in Iowa will not be good for the momentum and the narrative around his campaign. But it doesn't necessarily knock him out.

HM: Yeah, a poll has just come out saying that nationally his support has tumbled to 17 percent. That's a Reuters Ipsos poll.

AF: Look. Sure. Absolutely. I mean, look, he's not the flavor of the moment right now. But I also caution voters and your listeners about national polls in the United States in this presidential race, because we don't elect a nominee based on national polls. This all comes down to the states. So the question for Joe Biden is, can he hang onto the support that he's shown in the polling that he has from people of colour? Joe Biden has been up by as much as 30 points throughout this campaign and polling in South Carolina. So if Joe Biden only wins South Carolina by five points, is it seen as a victory? You know, this is very important to watch because Pete Buttigieg who is doing very well in the early states, he has a dismal showing in polling with people of colour. Does his early support change that as we get to South Carolina, as we get to Nevada? You know, that is the bigger question. And that's why Michael Bloomberg is waiting in the wings for everyone to get to the states where he has dumped 250 million dollars in on Super Tuesday.

HM: Yeah, well, money is the big deal here, right? And Biden says he's bringing about half a million dollars a day right now. How does that compare to the kind of money that other candidates have their hands on?

AF: Look, to be honest with you, a half a million dollars a day is not a tremendous amount of resources. So, you know, look, we know that Amy Klobuchar, after what people say was her best debate performance this past Friday evening, pulled in $3 million over the weekend. So I think Joe Biden is going to -- that could be one of the biggest downsides of him not doing well in New Hampshire is resources continuing to slow downs. And someone like a Bernie Sanders and a Pete Buttigieg continue the momentum they're getting from these early state performances.

HM: Yeah, it's interesting you use the word momentum and at the same time you're describing these two states, Iowa and New Hampshire in particular as not being representative of the US population. We have to wonder why they still have that lead position in the political season when momentum and messaging is so important.

AF: Look, absolutely. I think you're going to have a renewed focus on whether Iowa, especially Iowa after what we have dealt with over the last week here with the debacle that was the Iowa caucus. And so I think we're going to have a real focus on this. We're going to look at, well, one, how do we stop caucuses from happening? And also, should we have a state that's more representative? Look at is going to be in fight in the party that I think will take place. But I don't think it should happen now. Our focus has to be on sorting out this nomination fight and uniting to beat Donald Trump, not on, you know, internal party squabbles right now.

HM: So give me your best guess what's going to happen tomorrow? What kind of numbers do we look for?

AF: Look, my I think my best guess at this point is that Biden will finish in third or fourth. And I think you're going to see Bernie Sanders be victorious again in New Hampshire. He's had support there for a very long time. I think Pete Buttigieg will come in second place. But the dark horse tomorrow may be Amy Klobuchar. Amy Klobuchar did had a very strong debate performance. And her campaign is saying they have read record breaking crowds. The question is, can she leapfrog Joe Biden? Can she leapfrogging Elizabeth Warren to come in the top three? And, you know, create some headlines. If Elizabeth Warren does not finish ahead of Joe Biden, I think her campaign is going to have to start facing some tough questions about how they continue raising money. But Joe Biden is going to be hoping that election night, tomorrow night, comes sooner rather than later so he can move to more diverse states and continue to make his argument that he is the only one that can bring a broad, diverse coalition together.

HM: He always has rested on this notion that he is the most electable candidate against Donald Trump. If that starts to falter and he is not seen as that anymore, who do you think is the Democrat's best chance right now?

AF: Look, I think we have a lot of candidates that can beat Donald Trump. I mean, I do think Joe Biden can beat Donald Trump. I think a Bernie Sanders can beat Donald Trump. And I also think someone like Elizabeth Warren can beat Donald Trump. Because the reality is that working class people across the country have been sold a bill of goods by Donald Trump. Donald Trump is not talking about making sure people have health care. He's actually talking about taking it away. So, you know, I think that our argument going into these early states, what Democrats need is a candidate they're excited by because we cannot just run a campaign against Donald Trump. We need to run a campaign for something. So we need a candidate that is firing up people across the country. And that's what this nomination fight is all about, is finding out who is exciting our electorate the most.

HM: All right. Well, Mr. Feldman, we will be watching closely to see at least what the excitement is like in New Hampshire tomorrow.

AF: It's going to be a fun one, for sure. [Chuckles]

HM: All right. Thanks for talking to us.

AF: Thank you.

CH: Andrew Feldman is a Democratic Party strategist in the US. We reached him in Washington, D.C.

[Music]

Muskrat Falls

Guest: Ron Penney

CH: The Muskrat Falls hydroelectric project has been called a "boondoggle" -- a poorly planned project whose original $6 billion price tag has more than doubled. But today, people in Newfoundland and Labrador got a ray of hope that power will not be as expensive as they feared, at least for now. This morning, the federal and provincial governments announced a plan to reduce the project's short term costs. A plan that aims to protect hydro users from absorbing the project's cost overruns. Here's Premier Dwight Ball.

SOUNDCLIP

DWIGHT BALL: No government since confederation has faced a tougher challenge. How is it that a province that is an energy powerhouse could become a province where people are scared to turn the lights on? And thanks to our partnership with the federal government, we now have a sustainable long term solution. Your rates will not go up as a result of Muskrat Falls.

CH: That's Dwight Ball, the premier of Newfoundland and Labrador. Ron Penney isn't celebrating just yet. He's a lawyer and the chair of the Muskrat Falls Concerned Citizens Coalition. We reached him in St. John's.

HM: Mr. Penney, you were there when Premier Ball and the Federal Natural Resources Minister Seamus O'Regan made this announcement today. Does it seem to you like it is good news for Newfoundland and Labrador?

RON PENNEY: I think the press conference was actually premature. Essentially, what this press conference was about was announcing that they were going to enter into negotiations on the financial underpinnings of Muskrat Falls. So we don't know a lot more now than we did before. I think the premier felt the political necessity because he had promised to make an announcement on a federal provincial deal, and they didn't have it. So this was, in a sense, a way of him meeting his political commitment without really telling us very much. The other thing that's happened is that our public utilities board has just answered serious questions on rate mitigation. And that's just come down. So there's a lot of pressure on the government to both respond to that and to bring the federal government onside as well.

HM: Now, that report came out on Friday. It suggested that it was going to cost a lot more for electricity.

RP: Yeah, the electricity rates now are around 13 cents. And this is going to go up to almost 23 cents, so it's roughly a 70 percent increase that's projected. That's a real problem for Newfoundland consumers. We have a lot of low income families here. And it's going to be very very tough. And along with all of that is our fiscal situation is really desperate. We're running a billion dollar deficit this year and people are rightfully very very worried.

HM: You know, you mentioned this potential 75 percent increase. The premier did say today that hydro users won't see the rates rise because of Muskrat Falls. So does that not at least provide some relief to hydro users in the province?

RP: Well, the problem with that is a lot of this is in sense smoke and mirrors where we're transferring some of the expenditures or the requirements, the revenue requirements, back to the taxpayer. But the taxpayer and the ratepayer weren't the same. So I'm not at all confident that we've arrived at the answer yet. And I think the general public in Newfoundland is not confident either. And people will have no confidence that rates are not going to go up tremendously. So they're making decisions now as to how they can meet that. And one of the ways that people are acting, and I've done this myself, is that we're all out buying heat pumps, many heat pumps. So heat pumps are very very efficient. But the result of that is that the demand for electricity, in fact, is going down now and it's going to go down even more. And that poses a problem because the revenue requirements are still there. So we're in what some people call it's 'a death spiral' because if demand goes down, you have to increase rates more. And as rates go up, demand goes down even more. So it's a big big problem. It's a big problem for the people of Canada, because the federal government, in its wisdom or lack thereof, has guaranteed almost 8-billion dollars in loans for the Muskrat Falls project. So if we can't meet the revenue requirements, then the government of Canada is going to have to step in.

HM: Well, you know, maybe you can help us understand that because as I see it, the government of Newfoundland was always going to be on the hook for any cost overruns on Muskrat Falls. And they've ballooned. I mean, they've more than doubled. So what does it mean to the province and its finances if, you know, the federal government is going to perhaps step in?

RP: Well, one of the thoughts is that they might be able to extend the financing period. It's very long as it is now. I don't see that the people of the province can actually afford this -- afford to pay for this project. And that's why I say that the people of Canada should be concerned, because if we can't, the lenders for the project, they're fully protected -- but the taxpayers of Canada aren't.

HM: It sounds like you're suggesting this is going to be a white elephant.

RP: Oh, well, it's already a white elephant. The question is whose white elephant is it going to be?

HM: You know, I remember there was so much excitement when this thing was announced, at least among its proponents, thinking this was going to be a great thing for the province. And over time, public sentiment has definitely soured as the problems have added up. It's interesting you were never, as I understand it, a big believer in this. You were never onside. I want to know why.

RP: Well, we and a few others we were very lonely at the time. We were opposed from the very beginning. We were concerned about costs. And I had my personal experience because I was a senior public servant, both at the provincial and the municipal level. And we did a number of large projects -- nothing compared to the size of Muskrat Falls. So I saw what happened with these projects. And I doubted very much that we had the capacity to bring this project in on time and on budget. And regrettably, I was right.

HM: So now the provinces is going to be going into further negotiations, it seems, with the federal government. Is there anything substantial that can be done to sort of reduce the economic impact on Newfoundland and Labrador?

RP: So one thing the federal government could do is they could take an equity position, take 50 percent of the equity, because the government of Newfoundland has borrowed almost 4-billion dollars in order to meet the equity requirements for the project. And that money has got to be paid back. So if we can have that and the federal government takes half of it, that would be a big help. But even with that, there's not enough money there to bring rates down to the target rate, which I think is 13.5 cents. So it's a big big problem. And I don't see anything today that just brought us any closer to a solution.

HM: Mr. Penney, thank you very much for talking with us. We appreciate it.

RP: You're very welcome.

CH: Ron Penney is a lawyer, a former public servant, and the chair of the Muskrat Falls Concerned Citizens Coalition. We reached him in St. John's.

[Music]

Jeopardy! contestant

Guest: Kristyna Ng

CH: When Kristyna Ng moved to Canada from China in the 1980s, she didn't know how to speak English. Now she's fluent and she credits her own hard work and determination with helping her learn the language. But she also attributes her skill to an unwitting tutor: Alex Trebek -- as in the host of Jeopardy. And along with vocabulary and how to phrase an answer in the form of a question Ms. Ng also got an extremely extensive course in trivia. Now, she says her life is coming full circle because this week she's actually appearing on Jeopardy! We reached Kristyna Ng in Calgary.

HM: Ms. Ng what was it like for you to finally hold that Jeopardy buzzer in your hands after so many years of watching the show?

KRISTYNA NG: It was a very surreal experience. Very, I guess, shaky at first because that buzzer is make it or break it. And to appear on the stage with Alex Trebek in studio was just something I cannot imagine.

HM: You have a special connection to Jeopardy based on your time growing up. How did you first discover the show?

KN: I first discovered the show when I came to Canada in October 1989. And I very much started watching Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy. At that time there was only 13 channels. And so Jeopardy became a soundtrack of my life. And every night I would watch both shows. But Jeopardy in particular allowed me to really practice English, listen to the clues, listen for words that I did not know. Right? So from history or a US president or understanding Shakespeare, you run the gamut. It was a very very useful learning tool. But it also allowed me to feel more fully integrated into Canadian and North American society.

HM: Yeah, I've heard some people who have come to North America or to come into English as a second language say that they have discovered how to speak more and understand more through things like soap operas. But this is something special because it's imparting knowledge to you, not just language, as you say.

KN: Yes, it is a very unique way to learn right. And understand what's happening around us. So from current events as current as the Oscars last night or the SAG Awards two weeks ago -- those clues appear on Jeopardy! So one example that I say is how do you feel -- how do I feel that I am a Canadian? Is my understanding, you know, knowledge of our Canadian prime ministers, our provinces, as well as, you know, what are some of the great musicians such as Celine Dion and David Foster? So those questions could come up any time on Jeopardy! So it becomes very very relevant and a very powerful tool to actually know.

HM: You know, it's one thing, obviously, playing in your living room or second guessing sitting in the comfort of your own home. But where did you actually get the idea to make the leap from fan to contestant?

KN: Well, over the last I would say five years my husband and I noticed that our breadth and depth of knowledge was improving quite a bit. Then about three years ago, we met this lovely couple on one of the princess ships sailing out of San Francisco. And he was an excellent trivia player (their) his name was Dan -- and Joyce. And he said, you two are quite good. I think you can make it on the online exam for Jeopardy! So it was through meeting this very smart and intelligent couple that we started thinking about it a little bit more. And finally last year, my husband, Ritchie, said I signed us up. And he had more confidence in me than I did myself. So I have him to thank to get me onto the show.

HM: You mentioned earlier that you got a chance to to practice on that buzzer. We hear from experts, people like Ken Jennings -- like the superstar of Jeopardy -- that the real key to this is figuring out how to time that buzz. Can you share at least that part of your strategy? Because I know you can't tell us how you did.

KN: Yes, the buzzer is critical. And I think that's where Ken was so powerful in his seventy four game winning streak. And he just won the greatest of all times tournament as well. And he really focused when he beat James Holzhauer on the rhythm of Alex Trebek's voice. So I did not get into that level of detail. But when I appeared in the audition in Seattle in July, they did give us the Jeopardy buzzer clicker pins, if you will. And they had recommended that we practice. And so my husband, as it was getting closer to the show, he wouldn't ask me to stand as we're watching our daily Jeopardy episode to stand with my heels on and practice clicking and answering it in the form of a question. And Ken Jennings will also say this, that most of the contestants know most of the answers most of the time. And so that ability to click in at the ideal window is critical.

HM: Many of us have been following Alex Trebek, especially since he talked about the fact that he's facing stage four pancreatic cancer right now and yet continues to host that program in and push through. What was it like for you to be on the show -- and I am just thinking it was especially meaningful, given what you know, he's dealing with?

KN: Absolutely. I mean, what an inspirational Canadian and an inspirational human being. So he was so humble, so genuine and came right up to the audience and had conversations. And he would answer very honestly about his recent round of chemo treatments. And he would make jokes such as, hey, you know, on the weekend he was on his roof trying out the new leaf blower that he had purchased to clean the gutters. [Chuckles] So he just kept the mood and the spirit very very positive. And each contestant gets to have a picture with Alex Trebek. So that was a high watermark for me.

HM: What do you think your eight year old self would think now, knowing that you got to appear on this very famous game show?

KN: What is unbelievable?

HM: [Laughs] Well, it sounds exciting. We're looking forward to seeing you on the program. Too late to wish you luck, but thank you for speaking with us. I really enjoyed the conversation.

KN: Well, thank you very much. And I just would like to say that, you know, Canada made all of this possible for me.

HM: All right. Thanks again Ms. Ng.

KN: Thank you. Have a good day.

CH: We reached Kristyna Ng in Calgary. Ms. Ng will be appearing as a contestant on Jeopardy tomorrow night.

[Music]

Scary Tree

CH: "Barking up the wrong tree" is usually a metaphor. Until you see a tree that's terribly, horribly wrong. I'm talking specifically about a tree called "the Snetterton Scary Tree" which for decades has been growing in and haunting the Village of Snetterton, England. And every driver on the Snetterton circuit, the local motorsports track. Once a lap while they're tearing around at top speed, there would be -- seeming to silently promise that even if they won the race, it would inevitably claim them. It had two branches pointing skyward like creepy arms, generally looked like an ancient green monster, radiating a sense of inescapable doom. It reached peak scariness us about five years ago, taking a shape that even inspired a local beer called Snetterton Scary Tree. But then around 2017, one of its sky reaching branches wound up curving down. So it looked less like a malevolent forest demon and more like an ineffectual parent saying "I said come here." And now, unfortunately, it's not scary at all. This weekend, a violent storm ripped off both arm like branches. As the Snetterton Circuit Twitter account sorrowfully tweeted, "Snetterton's Scary Tree rebranded as 'Tree.'" Well, that's sad, but don't count it out. It is obviously infused with evil. I'm sure it has some idea of how to scare everyone again in future. Just lost a couple of branches. It's not like it's completely stumped.

[Music]

Part 2: Sinn Fein win

Sinn Fein win

Guest: Michael Clifford

CH: Sinn Fein won Ireland's election, but it remains to be seen if it will be able to govern. The left-wing populist party, once affiliated with the IRA, won more votes than any other party over the weekend. It's a stunning result for Sinn Fein, which was once seen as a hardline fringe group and the political arm of a provisional Irish Republican Army responsible for violence and killings during the Troubles. Sinn Fein beat out two centrist parties that have governed Ireland for decades: Fine Gale and Fianna Foil. And Sinn Fein says it's willing to work with those parties. But the feeling does not appear to be mutual. Michael Clifford is a columnist for the Irish Examiner. We reached him in Dublin.

HM: Michael, what message did voters send by giving Sinn Fein what is seen as a stunning victory on Saturday?

MICHAEL CLIFFORD: I think the message they sent was they want change. The change they appear to want is in relation to quality of life issues. As you may be aware Ireland's currently the fastest growing economy in Europe, but there is a number of quality of life issues that have not recovered since the recession. And primary among those is the issue of housing and homelessness. As well there's an awful lot of stuff around the health service -- that there's very long waiting lists for various procedures. Those are the kind of issues that were foremost in the election. Sinn Fein promised that they would change the way things were and they'd make life easier. Their phrase, their slogan during the election was give workers and families a break. And it seems to have reaped some success for them.

HM: And yet, you know, it's interesting that the party you only ran 42 candidates out of 160 constituencies. Why were they so cautious?

MC: Well, ever since the Good Friday agreement in 1998, Sinn Fein has been on an upward trajectory in the republic down here electorally. Now that continued right through to the last general election in 2016. Since then, Gerry Adams, who was very controversial, figures stepped down as president. Mary Lou McDonald, who has no connections to the IRA in the past, she became president. And people thought this would bring them onto a higher plane. Yet in the local and European elections last year, they actually lost seats. They lost nearly half their council seats. They lost most of their European members of parliament. So there was a feeling that they were in some trouble. And as a result of that, they seemed to gone in a defensive mode coming up to this election. They actually de-selected a number of the candidates they had on the basis that they were going to concentrate on trying to hold on to as many seats as possible. So like everybody else, they did not see this massive surge towards them that ultimately happened in the election. This is really the biggest upset electorally in this country possibly since 1932. Sinn Fein now is effectively on equal footing with the other two parties, and that is a massive upheaval in this country.

HM: You know, you mentioned Gerry Adams and The Troubles. It wasn't long ago, really, that most people would have associated Sinn Fein with that. And those many people who died -- thirty five hundred people. A lot of those listening outside of Ireland probably make those associations as well. But inside Ireland itself, what do you think Sinn Fein represents today?

MC: Well, those associations you're talking about, that definitely was a retarding factor under advance in the development of Sinn Fein in the republic down here, and it has been for over 20 years. For example. Martin McGuinness, who's now deceased, would have been a colleague of Gerry Adams through the Troubles. He ran for president here in 2011 and the past kept coming up at him. Victims' relatives and all approached him. And while Mr. Adams was in place, that was seen as a big issue. Now, even though he stepped down, an older generation would still consider it as an issue. It would seem, though, that for the younger generation, they merely represent a change from the two longstanding parties, and that it would seem that the younger generation don't see themselves as connected to the Troubles. Remember the Good Friday agreement is 22 years ago. So perhaps anybody under 40, for instance, they don't associate Sinn Fein with the Troubles the way an older generation would. Now, one issue that arises there is that some believe and there's some evidence for it that the old IRA figures that did run the so-called Republican movement that included Sinn Fein and the IRA, that they are still to some extent pulling the strings of Sinn Fein in west Belfast. An older generation, I would say, in this country still have doubts around them in that regard.

HM: So at Sinn Fein tries to move beyond that path. How much credit does the leader, Mary Lou McDonald, get for this this victory?

MC: Ironically six months ago -- I just looked at something a colleague of mine wrote: her position was under pressure. Things weren't working out for her. Now since that campaign began three and a half weeks ago, she certainly came into her own. She was very good at presenting herself to the public. She was on message the whole time. She presented herself as very empathic. She kept talking about give me a chance. She was initially excluded from a leaders debate and this garnered her a certain amount of sympathy. It remains to be seen whether, as you well know, did that the phrase campaigning in poetry, governing in prose. The big leap for Sinn Fein will be if they do get into government, will they be prepared to take the difficult decisions that have to be taken in government, take care of the public finances, etc.? That's when we'll really see how good Ms. Mcdonald may turn out to be in that regard.

HM: The prime minister's party, Fine Gale, has said it won't work with them. Fianna Fail is their other option. Can they find partnerships?

MC: Well, this is a six million dollar question because as you say, Fine Gale said they won't work with them. Up until yesterday, Fianna Fail said it won't work with them. Fianna Fail said it won't work with Fine Gale in a coalition. So you have a scenario whereby we're still not sure how it's going to turn out. We need a strong government in this country over the next 12 months in particular, because the trade negotiations in relation to Brexit in the EU will be at a vital stage. And we have a huge interest in that because of the volume of trade we do with the UK. So it'll be very important for this country, for its economic outlook that we have a strong government that's in a good negotiating position over the next twelve months.

HM: And in fact, for many, Brexit has reopened the whole debate about Irish unification. This Sinn Fein win and if it does form government, it's the handling of that. I'm wondering how you think it will move forward.

MC: Well you see that will be very interesting again, because some people would suggest that unity and border poll is something of a Trojan horse in this election. In that a core value within the party historically has been that there'll be a united Ireland. That's what the IRA went out and killed people far up until 20 odd years ago. There where the political wing of the IRA. This remains the fear is that this is their core issue. Behind closed doors the issue of Irish unity is still the main core of Sinn Fein. And these are quality of life issues are something of a Trojan horse. Some people would say that's unfair. Others would say that's just reality.

HM: Well, we will be watching from here to see what happens in terms of the future of your government. Thank you very much for talking with us.

MC: Thank you very much.

CH: Michael Clifford is a columnist for The Irish Examiner. We reached him in Dublin.

[Music]

Trudy Clement

CH: As the boredom sets in on board the Diamond Princess in Japan. So does the anxiety. So far, there have been 135 confirmed cases of the new coronavirus onboard a cruise ship off the coast of Tokyo. That is the highest number of cases in one place outside of mainland China. And for restless passengers who are confined to their rooms, including hundreds of Canadians, every day brings a new level of fear. Trudy Clement is a Canadian on the cruise traveling with her husband. She spoke with CBC News Network host Heather Hiscox this morning from her quarantine room.

SOUNDCLIP

TRUDY CLEMENT: We're doing okay. I think today was probably the most stressful day we've had. It was constant ambulances, fire trucks, army personnel here. And just watching off the balcony. And we didn't know how many more people became ill again until this evening. So the numbers are astonishing. We had an opportunity to go out and stretch her legs today for a walk. But we didn't go. We're just going to stay here where we know we're not contaminated right now.

HEATHER HISCOX: So your level of apprehension is going up Trudy more and more?

TRUDY CLEMENT: Very much so. When we saw the men in the hazmat suits and they were all almost marching towards the ship, we don't know what purpose of those gentlemen were, whether they're removing the sick passengers and staff from the ship or if they're disinfecting.

HEATHER HISCOX: Our reporter, Chris Brown. Chris was listening to the voice of the captain coming over the speakers, I guess, and was understanding some of the instructions that he was saying that the air is fresh, that they're not recirculating old air. So don't worry about that, that you should wear masks at all times, even when you open the door to receive your food. Are you doing that Trudy?

TRUDY CLEMENT: We did it for the first time this evening. So when our dinner came, I answered the door with a mask on.

HEATHER HISCOX: Are you afraid you're going to get sick, Trudy?

TRUDY CLEMENT: I am very afraid of getting sick. And so is my husband. It's yeah...it's a possibility. And we have our next door neighbour here. His wife was removed from the ship and he's alone next door. And he doesn't know when he's going to see her. She's not allowed back on the ship. So he'll have to stay. She's in a hospital one hour outside of Tokyo right now.

HEATHER HISCOX: How about your family members at home? How concerned about you are they?

TRUDY CLEMENT: They're very concerned. We're in constant contact. The time change makes a big difference for when we can speak, but always every day, constant contact.

CH: Trudy Clement is a Canadian onboard the quarantined Diamond Princess cruise ship off the coast of Tokyo. She was speaking with CBC News Network host Heather Hiscox earlier today.

[Music]

Board game piece

Guest: David Petts

CH: It's a small rounded piece of blue glass with white swirly lines on it. Probably about the diameter of a checker or a backgammon piece and maybe about the height of the thimble from Monopoly. And archaeologists say that it is actually a board game piece that's more than 1000 years old. It was found last year during a dig on the island of Lindisfarne off the northeast coast of England. David Petts is an archaeologist who's part of that excavation. And we reached him near Richmond in North Yorkshire, England.

HM: Professor Petts take us back to the day that there's gaming piece was found on the island. What happened at that site?

DAVID PETTS: Well, frustratingly, it was the one day that I wasn't actually on the site. I got sent a photograph while I was in a supermarket car park showing this beautiful little glass object. And it had actually been found by the mother of one of our site directors. She'd been volunteering with us for the day. And yeah, she found this while she was trawling in one of our trenches. So it's an absolutely lovely surprise.

HM: And when you say trawling in a trench, I mean, how deep was this buried? How hard was it for her to uncover?

DP: It was remarkably easy. Where we're digging we dont have to go down very far at all before we are into the archaeology. So we were cleaning up around some stones, which might be part of the wall. And just in the course of that very simple process, this little object popped out.

HM: Describe it for us.

DP: It's about a centimeter or two high. It looks a little bit like a chewy sweets -- candy. It's actually a blue glass. Under natural light -- it's very dark and almost looks like very dark blue. It's decorated with some white glass trails on it. Then there's a series of little bubbles at the top, which almost looks little bit like a crown.

HM: So they're like little balls on the top of it?

DP: Yeah, that's right. Yes.

HM: How unusual is it to find a piece specifically like this?

DP: Well, there's maybe two or three from Britain and Ireland and a handful of similar ones from the rest of Europe. They do find much more simple examples. But to find a really intricate, nice one like the one we found was exceptionally rare.

HM: Now, this is -- you've determined a game piece. How was the game piece used?

DP: In this period they had a series of related board games. And they're kind of strategy games where you've got two sides and one side has a king. And the king is trying to escape from the other side. He's trying to get to the edge of the board game. So it's kind of almost like a very simple war game. And we think that our piece, because it had those particularly nice little decorative bubbles, was probably one of the king pieces.

HM: Now you're dating this piece to the year 700 to 900, somewhere in there. What was going on the island at this time?

DP: Well, Lindisfarne is best known for being the site of a really important early medieval monastery. Some of your listeners might have heard of something called the Lindisfarne Gospels, which is one of the great works of the early medieval decorative art. It's an illuminated manuscript so beautifully decorated with lots of decorative letters and illustrations and Lindisfarne was where these works of art were created. It was a major monastery. It was an economic center. It was a royal site. It was an awful lot going on in what's now quite a small small village.

HM: So it sounds like quite a few people would have come through there then. Who do you think might have been playing the game?

DP: Well, there's lots of people coming through somewhere like Lindisfarne. We certainly know that at least one king, Anglo Saxon king, actually retired to Lindisfarne. Most Anglo Saxon kings tended to die in battle. But if they could have got old enough, sometimes they retired. And he would have moved to the monastery, lived out his life in peace. We certainly know there would have been pilgrims and aristocratic visitors to somewhere like Lindisfarne. It could even have been used by one of the more important monks themselves.

HM: There have been some stories suggesting it might have been Viking’s who brought the game peace while they were raiding. You don't buy that?

DP: There's a kind of shared culture across the North Sea area in this period. So actually some of the things Viking’s are using weren't but different from the things the Anglo-Saxons were using. So our little game piece -- it could potentially be Viking but we couldn't say for certain. It just sits quite comfortably in the range of nice items used by the aristocrats of the North Sea World in this period.

HM: So you said this is rare. Tell me the significance of this piece and what it's finding actually means.

DP: I think for us, it helps us remind people of the importance of somewhere like Lindisfarne. People tend to think of early medieval monasteries as being very remote and burial steer. And certainly for some monks that would have been true. But as I say, they were also royal residences where kings retired to. They would have seen merchants and traders and of course, ultimately raiders coming through. So these are the crossroads of the early medieval world. And I think that's all encapsulated in this one little tiny playing piece.

HM: This excavation is a partnership between your university and a community archaeology group called Dig Ventures. You said already that it was the mother of one of your archaeologists who uncovered this piece. Do you worry about having untrained members of the public working at historic sites like this?

DP: No. Working with the community has always been something I've done. I mean, a lot of people I mean myself, I came to archaeology through having volunteered as a student, as a teenager. Frankly, you know, working with the community like this -- they are dedicated, they want to be there, they're desperate to learn. We work closely with them. So they're supervised and they make fantastic workers.

HM: Any other of your workers' mothers wanting to get over there now out the site? Is this increasing interest in people working on the dig?

DP: Yeah, I mean, we crowd-fund ourselves and we reached our target very quickly this year. My mom's desperate to come up as well. So I think is probably a good sign.

HM: Where is the game piece going to end up?

DP: Hopefully back on the island. There is a visitor center and there's a little museum. I'm really keen that all these objects don't end up in a museum off the islands. You want to bring them back so the visitors and the islanders can see it.

HM: Professor Petts thank you very much for telling us all about it. It sounds like it's quite a fascinating site.

DP: Absolute pleasure.

CH: That was Durham University archaeologist David Petts. We reached him near Richmond, England.

[Music]

Piano Heaven

CH: Canadian classical pianist Angela Hewitt is mourning the loss of her best friend, her beloved grand piano. In a Facebook post this week, the Ottawa pianist described how the piano she's played for the past 17 years is now, quote, "kaput." She had just finished recording her forthcoming album, "Beethoven Variations" in Berlin, and was feeling elated in the studio control room when piano movers came in to share some horrible news: they had dropped her Fazioli concert grand piano. And it wasn't salvageable. "I adored this piano," she wrote. "It was my best companion. I loved how it felt when I was recording, giving me the possibility to do anything I wanted. I hope my piano will be happy in piano heaven."

[Music]

Human Vs. Computer

CH: Today, it probably would not surprise you to hear that a computer beat a human at a game of chess. But a couple of decades ago, that was not the case. On this day, back in 1996, IBM's supercomputer, Deep Blue beat chess grandmaster Garry Kasparov of for the first time. It was the first of a six game series which Mr. Kasparov went on to win. The CBC Sunday morning program covered those matches. And here's what the beginning of one segment on the show sounded like from our archives.

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IAN BROWN: In the end, man beat machine. But the machine did well enough to make history. And a surprise just about everyone and the brainy and ultra-competitive world of chess. This week, the supercomputer Deep Blue beat Garry Kasparov, the reigning world champion of chess. The computer won one game and tied to more. Deep Blue beat Kasparov, not by out thinking him, but by out muscling him. Monty Newborn was an organizer of the match between Kasparov and Deep Blue. He's a professor of computer science at McGill University. This morning, he joins me from Philadelphia. Morning, Monty. Nice to talk to you again.

MONTY NEWBORN: Good morning, Ian.

IAN BROWN: Is this the best computer has ever done against a chess champion?

MONTY NEWBORN: Yes, this has been quite a accomplishment for the IBM computer.

IAN BROWN: Well, why did most people -- when I spoke to you last year, you suggested that most people thought Kasparov would reign supreme. Now that it turned out they were right. But why were they so confident?

MONTY NEWBORN: Well, they're in a state of repression to some degree of the reality of the fact that the computers are getting pretty slick at this game.

IAN BROWN: You were down there -- tell me about the match. Was there any of the tension and excitement and drama you would expect to see in a match between two brilliant human chess players?

MONTY NEWBORN: Well, there was tremendous excitement. The first round, basically the computer --if you look at it as a boxing match, the computer floored the champ in the first round. And the human came back and floored the computer in the second. So they were slugging it out.

CH: That was part of a segment on the CBC Sunday morning back in 1996. You heard host Ian Brown interviewing chess event organizer Monty Newborn.

[Music]

Part 3: Polish LGBT signs

Polish LGBT signs

Guest: Bartosz Staszewski

CH: Bartosz Staszewski calls his signs a mix of art and activism. His critics say they're spreading fake news. Mr. Staszewski is a Polish filmmaker. For his latest project he's been posting photos on social media. They're portraits of lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans people in small Polish towns posing next to signs reading LGBT free zone. The signs are not official. What is official is the declaration that Polish politicians have been adopting, declaring community after community to be free of what they call LGBT ideology. We reached Bartosz Staszewski in Warsaw.

HM: Mr. Staszewski what happened when you started posting these images on social media?

BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: Oh, actually, the social media exploded. I was quite surprised that the people be so much interested in my project. Whole Europe started to speak about this. I mean, I've seen my photos on Twitter, on Instagram, on Facebook. Top politicians from the European Parliament waere posting them. But also from Sweden, Italy, Germany. So everyone was quite interested what is going on in Poland.

HM: And so when you say that the interest kind of exploded, it's in a positive way that you're seeing that?

BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: Quite positive for me as an LGBT person that they want to highlight the homophobia we have in Poland. But on other hand, I think that we need this support. The only thing that the Polish right-wing government is scared of.

HM: You speak of homophobia in Poland. What is the point you are trying to make by putting up signs that say LGBT free zone and then taking pictures of LGBT people inside those signs?

BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: Last year, it was quite tough year for LGBT persons. There was like a big campaign against us made by the Law and Justice government. They used us as a public enemy number one for the parliament elections. So they show us to people as an enemy. One of those types of propaganda was to introduce a declaration against LGBT ideology. So my signs were simply the answer to those declarations.

HM: And when you say they're passing motions that reject LGBT ideology, who's passing those motions?

BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: Members of the local councils, the politicians from the Law and Justice Party. They opposed to what they see as a threat for the Christian values, to the threat to their Polish type of style of life. They are very scared about this, so they pass such a law.

HM: What do these motions mean? I mean, what did they specifically say?

BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: It's mostly symbolic act. So they write that they will be against sexual education based on World Health Organization standards. Or they will not allow some political correctness officers to be in the schools. They will defend the tradition of Christianity in this county, province, or city that is introducing this all. So it's quite symbolical one, but it's obviously for those people who live in those counties or province, a sign that the politicians will not represent their problems in the city council, that they will not treat them as equal to other members of this community. That they are a threat to this community.

HM: How many of these local governments are passing these motions?

BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: Right now, it's a near 90 town city province.

HM: Ninety.

BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: Yes, exactly.

HM: And is this where you are putting up your signs and taking the photos in these specific communities?

BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: Yes. I try to go there and to ask people from the LGBT committee to show up. They are the real heroes in this story because sometimes they're from diverse small communities where there are like 10000 people living.

HM: Have any of the people you photographed say that they regret appearing publicly?

BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: No. They are quite proud of being called LGBT person. They know that it can be tough for them sometimes. I am still is in contact with them. Most of the reactions are positive. The families are supporting them.

HM: So when you speak of these communities and even at the national level, governments saying that they reject LGBT ideology, that they are sending this symbolic message. What effect is that having across the country?

BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: I think it's mostly frozing effect.

HM: Freezing?

BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: You can say the freezing effect. Yes. I mean that the people who are living in these communities -- like the teachers, they don't know how those acts working. They just know that the local city council made such a thing. They are asking us on the front page of our local NGO. Though they can't use LGBT topics on their lessons -- they speak about the LGBT stuff. They don't know how this new law is working. And we just explained them that it's not a law. It's more about the symbolical declaration of homophobia in Poland. Not that they need to be scared about this, but people are scared.

HM: Your opponents, those who reject what you're doing, they are accusing you of spreading false news in putting these signs up, taking the photos and posting them. What do you say?

BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: I just simply answer them that my signs are an answer to the resolution that are already existing in those communities. They are nothing more and nothing less. The things that are in those declarations, declaration of war to the LGBT people, the ideology, a declaration made by their agent that they will simply formalize their homophobia. So I think that I am not doing nothing more than to visualize the things that are existing.

HM: What are your plans going forward? Do you plan to continue doing this or are you going to take on other kinds of projects?

BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: Yes, I want to continue it and I want to go to other communities or other towns, the province, counties where such a declaration are existing and ask other LGBT people to stand up to present their selves to the photos.

HM: Mr. Staszewski I appreciate you speaking with us today. Thank you very much.

BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: Thank you so much.

CH: Bartosz Staszewski is a Polish LGBT activist. And we reached him in Warsaw. And you can see some of Mr. Staszewski's photos on the As It Happens website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Devon McKenzie

CH: She spent months fighting an eviction notice, but now one Toronto renter is calling it quits. This past summer, we spoke with Devon McKenzie. She's a 24 year old who was told she'd have to leave her rented home because her landlord wanted to move in -- well one of her landlords, a man who owns just 1 percent of the home. Ms. McKenzie, was set to challenge her eviction notice at Ontario's Landlord and Tenant Board. But after a series of delays and unpaid rent, she attributes to her former roommates, she's decided to leave. Not just the house, but Toronto as well. Back in July, guest host Rosemary Barton spoke with Devon McKenzie about her situation and what her new landlord told her.

SOUNDCLIP

DM: He was intending to move in and that he was the one that wants to move in and wanted both units out. But also you know I live in a very tight knit neighbourhood. So through the neighbours and them all finding out what was happened it led me to learn that the gentleman actually only purchased a 1 percent share in the house and was claiming to be a landlord.

RB: So the original people that were on the documents through the two years or whatever since you've lived there kept 99 percent of the house?

DM: Yes yes. So they sold a 1 percent share at 9,000 dollars.

RB: To this young man?

DM: Yes. So the young man is the son of a family friend. The parents purchased it for him and put it under his name.

RB: How do you know that part?

DM: He told me -- the gentleman that owns the 1 percent share.

RB: So why did the people who originally owned the house not ask you to leave so that he could just take over?

DM: Because he's not related. It's illegal for them to do that. So you can only serve the N12 in the case of immediate family or a caregiver for immediate family or yourself.

RB: So then why do you think they sold him the 1 percent?

DM: Because it's kind of a grey area. By him owning that 1 percent it allows him to be in a sense a partial owner of the house. Whether or not that 1 percent really truly does give him the right to kick out you know both units that remain to be seen once I go through with the Tenant Board. It technically is legal. He technically is a landlord in a sense because he does own a portion of the house. It's more important now than ever to make sure that the government is aware of these tiny loopholes and these issues with the housing market being as insane as it is there shouldn't need to be any more excuses for landlords to just kick people out. It is hard enough finding a place as it is.

CH: This from our archives. That's guest host Rosemary Barton speaking with Devon McKenzie. Ms. McKenzie is leaving Toronto and has dropped her case at the Landlord and Tenant Board after a man who owned one percent of her rental home tried to evict her last summer.

[Music]

It’s J-Dog

CH: As any actor who won an Oscar last night will tell you, the best directors know how to inspire a great performance. And for 19 year old Skyler Krupa, it's all about casting. Like his peers, the budding content creator has found a home on Tik Tok where users share short videos. And he's also found a star who has undeniable presence: his 88 year old grandmother, Jenny. Last August, Skyler's started a Tik Tok account under the username: "It's J-Dog." J-Dog being Jenny Krupa. In one of her more popular videos, J-Dog is standing in her kitchen, outfitted in an oversized grey sweatsuit, strutting across the tile floor to this.

SOUNDCLIP

[Music]

CH: Since last year, J-Dog has gained legions of followers and even a connection to Kanye West. Here's 19 year old Skyler Krupa explaining his grandmother's fame.

SOUNDCLIP

SKYLER KRUPA: It's just me posting videos of my grandma, just making jokes, making like sometimes dark jokes, sometimes just nice-easy jokes. It's all over the place. We have as of today, we have 750,000 followers. And I think we have over 24 million likes. But I haven't looked in a day or so. I think people like it because it's something completely different than what's usually on the app, because it's either kids on the app or older people. But the older people are making like nice, cute videos, and then we are there making like dark humor jokes. At first she didn't really understand it, but she likes it. Any time she'll see someone in public that might recognize her, like they might make a little eye contact with her. She'll come home and be like, oh, I think I saw a person that watches my videos. So I think it's gotten around. I have had like a couple different like rappers reach out to me asking if I can use their song in a video and they'll pay us. And I've also had videos that we've done with certain songs where the video will go viral and then the record label will actually reach out to us and be like, hey, thank you so much for using the song I'm so and so -- and I work with like big name celebrities. Like the one guy that reached out to us that he did a couple of songs with Kanye West and he used to manage Travis Scott. Just wild things like that happen sometimes.

CH: That was Skyler Krupa talking about the Tik Tok account he runs called "It's J-Dog" in which J-Dog is his 88 year old grandmother, Jenny.

[Music]

Bodega math question

Guest: Ahmed Alwan

CH: It begins with a straightforward math question.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE 1: 10 times 10. Minus 50.

VOICE 2: 50.

VOICE 1: 5, 4...3, 2, 2 and one quarter. [Cross talking] 2 and three quarters. 1! Take your stuff and leave.

CH: That was Ahmed Alwan a 20 year old bodega worker in New York City. He's been posting videos of customers in his store, answering math questions and then racing around the store to get as much free stuff as possible in five seconds. The videos have gone viral, but that's not the only reason he's doing it. We reached Ahmed Alwan in New York City.

HM: Ahmed, explain what we are hearing in that clip.

AHMED ALWAN: In that specific video one of my customers wanted to pick up my cat and he had five seconds to pick up whatever you want because he answered the question correctly. He went for my cat and I said, no, he can't have my cat. And then he went for the snacks and some hookah. He went from snacks and some hookah.

HM: He was willing to give up the cat.

AA: Oh, yeah. He was going to take...yeah. [Laughs]

HM: So tell me how this challenge works.

AA: How this challenge works is if they get a question right, they have 5 seconds to pick up whatever they want. Like I am going to ask them under pressure and it could be random. I just pick up the phone and start recording and if they get it right, they have five seconds to, like, search the store, pick up any food products. Sometimes even money.

HM: Even money?

AA: Depending on what they need.

HM: And what kind of questions are you asking?

AA: Well, for now, I'm asking math questions like multiplication questions.

HM: And would you describe them as simple math questions? Are they complex?

AA: No, simple math questions like eight times eight, minus 10.

HM: And is that because you yourself have a love or facility for math?

AA: Math was kind of a hard subject for me I'm not going to lie when I was in high school.

HM: But not anymore.

AA: No, not anymore. So it was kind of easier for my customers because I thought these challenges, these questions are going to be way easier for them to answer because I don't want to give them any challenging questions where they're stuck and then nobody's winning.

HM: Right. So the point is actually to give people an opportunity to get some stuff they need.

AA: Yeah, basically.

HM: Who takes part in your challenge? Have you got rules on limiting who can participate?

AA: Not anybody exactly, but people that are really in need. And it depends. The people that are in need. And it depends on who is the person? You know, it depends like if I know this person for a long time and I know he's struggling with like, you know, food or money wise. Sometimes people even change the products for some money.

HM: Did to the people who come in and take this challenge know what's going to happen or do you surprise them?

AA: No. Some of them know. Most of them don't know.

HM: Wow. Did anybody get the answer wrong?

AA: Nope, nobody, because they're only simple math questions. My last question was 10 apples minus four oranges. How many apples are left? .

HM: It's so interesting that, you know, you're doing this. Can you tell us why? What's motivated you to do this thing?

AA: Thank you so much. What's motivated me is like the happy faces, the love, the energy I'm getting. Like I've been getting so much love. I've been getting sort like all my customers, like, come back to the store thanking me, appreciating what I'm doing for the neighbourhood, for the community. And yeah, just the love. I like the happy faces any everything. Everybody's so excited. Now I have lines waiting now.

HM: Bodegas like any store is supposed to not give away things. But to earn money, is this not bad for business?

AA: It's not bad for business because it is coming out of my pocket. But yeah. So like any bodega -- they are there to sell, not to give out. But it's not really affecting the owner because -- my dad -- because everything is really coming out of my cheque.

HM: So your dad owns the store. What does he think of what you're doing?

AA: He thinks it is very good. He likes that I'm getting a lot of love and attention from the customers in the community, and he said that I'm representing Islam in a good way. My religion in a good way.

HM: And this isn't the only kind of good deed you've done I understand.

AA: Of course not. Before, like any of this, like, I would have customers come in ask for credit. I would always give them credit. I always -- I helped a lot of customers without the camera and everything. So I just wanted to do this challenge because I thought it was going to be interesting. I just posted a video and it blew up.

HM: What does that mean to you? I mean, a lot of people nowadays do some pretty outrageous stuff just to get attention. This sounds like, you know, you're motivated by something deeper. I'm just wondering what it means to you that these people are paying attention to you.

AA: It means a lot to me because now I'm getting a lot of attention, and I set up a Go Fund Me link and I've gotten a lot of donations, which now I'm going to use all towards the customers. And hopefully I can help more people in the future, more than my neighborhood, more than my community, because my Instagram is now building, my Tik Tok is building up and my Twitter. I've been getting a lot a lot of love in my DMs. Everybody thanking me. Everybody appreciating what I'm doing for the community. It's just been going crazy.

HM: So that go fund me money. Will you use it to buy more goods for people to do this five second challenge?

AA: This will be for more goods. And in some of them I'll do challenges with money and I'd give them money. That's for my new future videos.

HM: You said earlier that so far the questions are all math based. Are you planning to expand to other topics?

AA: I was thinking after math, history. I was thinking some riddles too.

HM: Sounds pretty interesting for you too coming up with all of this stuff.

AA: Yeah.

HM: Want to give me a math question? I'm no genius.

AA: Seven times seven minus ten.

HM: Thirty nine.

AA: Congrats! You have five seconds...

HM: Give my five seconds to the next customer.

AA: I got you.

HM: Okay. Ahmed it's a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you very much.

AA: Thank you so much.

HM: Good luck with this.

AA: Thank you. Thank you I really appreciate that.

CH: Ahmed Alwan works at his family's bodega in New York City, which is where we reached him.

[Music]

Alouettes Cheerleaders

CH: There's really no need to explain the role of cheerleaders. The job description is the word itself. If they succeed in that sole purpose, you should expect a lot of loud, enthusiastic cheering. And if they do so consistently and then you suddenly take them away. Well, you're probably inviting a lot of the opposite. That is loud, boisterous booing. That's exactly what happened last week when the new owners of the Montreal Alouettes announced they were 86ing the team's cheerleading squad. The decision was purely financial, they explained. But the fans didn't buy that, and neither did at least one cheerleader. Here's some of what Ali Pileggi told CBC Montreal.

SOUNDCLIP

ALI PILEGGI: It's part time. I'm a teacher full time. And this was something that I was really passionate about. I've been dancing since the age of four. And when I turned 18 this is something that I wanted to do. And I went for it and I made the team. And it has been a dream come true. It was the most beautiful chapter of my life so far. It's really an amazing experience.

SABRINA MARANDOLA: The club says that this was for financial reasons. Is this something, Ali, you think you would do if there were no money?

ALI PILEGGI: Absolutely.

SABRINA MARANDOLA: You would do it for free?

ALI PILEGGI: I would. Going onto the team, I didn't know if we were paid or not. I just kind of wanted to do this because it was my passion. I love to dance. And I didn't know if we were getting paid. And not all teams do get paid. We were one of the lucky teams that that were...we were taken care of. And, you know, if they said to me, we're doing pay cuts and we're not going to keep paying you. Do you still want to cheer? I would say yes, because honestly, it was just fun. It was just fun to be there. The girls and the guys that I met on this team are amazing. It's just an amazing experience. Like, I do it for the experience, not for the money.

SABRINA MARANDOLA: You really hear the emotion and the passion in your voice. If you could talk to the new owners of the team, what would you tell them?

ALI PILEGGI: I would just say that I hope that they one day reconsider. That I do respect their decision because it must have been a really hard decision to make. But we really do bring an amazing aspect to the stadium on game day. And I think that they would really benefit from having us back. So I hope that one day they do reconsider.

CH: Ali Pileggi speaking with the CBC's Sabrina Marandola. The outcry among fans was considerable and it was effective. Today, the Alouettes posted an update on the team webpage and it's guaranteed to appease fans, even if the delivery is a bit clunky. The statement promises, quote, "The best cheerleaders in the country will be part of the game to continue to impress the crowd with their athletic choreographies. The fans reached out. Our members spoke up. They asked us in a very constructive and respectful manner. For the vast majority of them to reconsider our position. They also clearly demonstrated their profound attachment to our cheerleader team and to the Alouettes. Consequently, we listened and read all communication. We appreciate the comments that support the team and proved the value it has in the eyes of fans." Like I said, they arguably fumbled the wording a bit, but they were obviously trying to respond with appropriate pom poms and circumstance.

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February 10, 2020 Episode Transcript

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