'His heart still beats strong to give life': How an organ donation united 2 families

Guests: Pat Loder, Robert Buttle

AMT: Hello. I'm Anna Maria Tremonti and you're listening to The Current. Today we've got a new chapter in a story we first shared with you last year.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE: He enjoyed the outdoors, the outdoors was his playground really. Like most children, he grew up playing you know hockey until a concussion stopped him from doing that. But he also played you know soccer. He snowboarded, he snowmobiled. He loved to hunt, so he loved to fish. He was friendly. He was humble. He was one of these guys that if somebody needed something, it came second nature to him just to give it or offer up his parents' services to give it.

AMT: That was Pat Loder of Goose Bay speaking with me a year ago. She was telling us about Jeff, her son, who died by suicide in July of 2016. He was 20-years-old and about the only silver lining to that story was that his liver, his lungs and his heart, were donated to patients in need. Pat had a burning desire to meet those people who had received her son's organs. She was able to write letters, telling them about her son and wishing them good health. But in keeping with the provincial rules in Newfoundland and Labrador, those letters had to remain anonymous. One of the recipients, the man who has Jeff's heart, wrote back twice. In the time since we last spoke with Pat, she and her daughter Jodi, took to social media to try to connect with that man, without the anonymity. And it worked. They first spoke on the phone and then they finally got together in person a couple of weeks ago. They are both joining me now. Pat Loder is in St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador. Robert Buttle of Kingston, Ontario, is with us from Ottawa. Hello to you both.

ROBERT BUTTLE: Hi.

PAT LODER: Good morning, Anna Maria.

AMT: And I guess you already know each other, you can say hi if you want.

RB: Hi Pat.

PL: Good morning Rob. How is your evening? Good.

RB: It was pretty good. Yeah hi. I'm not real fussy on big cities, but this is a lot better than Toronto.

PL: Yeah, we'll pull you out to the east coast where you're comfortable.

RB: That would be nice.

AMT: Pat what was it like for you to finally meet Rob?

PL: Oh goodness. So I'd have to go back. Well I mean the social media side of it allowed us to talk and FaceTime prior to, but to actually meet face to face it was really nice to get the story behind his journey and to see the man you know that through organ donation we could help and change, but also to hear that heart beat and know that you know Rob's got a second chance at life because of our son. It's extremely emotional, but it's ver,y very, very, the magnitude of it just kind of hits home.

AMT: Well I'll get all the details in a minute, but just briefly Rob, how did you feel about meeting Pat?

RB: It was like she said, the social media thing sort of we had met through that. So I knew through that that they were good people, good family and that sort of thing, but to actually see her and I think it was a touch, like to be able to hug her. It's where it all came together and it was like, it's like sort of having another sister. Not quite, but very, very similar. And I think after some time together of talking and maybe visiting again or whatever, it will become that way. And yeah they were, we just kind of clicked. You know it's just one of those things that happens that her family and especially, Jeff, grew up the same way as I grew up. I mean it's uncanny and if I were to ever, ever lose one of my, we have four children, and it would just be devastating and I can, I feel for Pat everyday.

AMT: Pat, like what happened? You went to the door, what happened?

PL: OK so we got a cab from Ottawa down to Rob sister's, Sue's, I met at Manotick,.

RB: Manotick, yeah.

PL: Yeah. And so we pulled up and yeah. So everybody was kind of nervous and hesitant and yet anxious. And so Jodi went ahead of us and we kind of stood behind her and then she knocked on the door and Rob answered. And so you know she kind of fell into his arms almost and you could tell Rob was really nervous, right Rob?

RB: She jumped into my arms, I think.

PL: Yeah pretty much, yeah. So we gave her space you know to feel as much as she needed to feel and so then I came next and Rob was talking, like you know you could tell he was nervous. I was. We were all nervous because we didn't know emotionally, you know if you're going to just be a bubble on the floor really, right? And we just leaned in and and held each other and emotion-wise kind of held up because I could tell he was a bit nervous and so was I, but then Colin came in behind us and you know we were little bit of chatter and then Rob's sister, Sue, came out and Sue's like cheeks were filled with tears right. And that's when I lost it.I just grabbed her and maybe sister to sister, sho knows right?

RB: She's pretty emotional.

PL: Yeah. We had a good cry.

AMT: Rob when you opened that door, like you have the hand on the door knob, you open the door.

RB: Yeah. It was like she was saying like there's I don't know if anybody has ever gone through this sort of feeling or whatever. But it was of more anxious to see her and hoping that she was who I thought she was on the phone. And as soon as I seen her and just you know her, the way she presented herself and of course with Jodi jumping into my arms and I think Pat was right behind her, as far as hugs and whatever and you know, you just don't do that to people you've never met before, unless there's a real connection and there was a connection.

AMT: Pat, I heard you brought a stethoscope.

PL: Actually Jodi had brought a stethoscope. She had done paramedics, so and it's funny the stethoscope has J Loder written on it because both her brother, both of them, their names started with J and she had always figured that she would carry him wherever she went, if she had it on her stethoscope. So yeah the intent was that we would take some pictures and we would ask Rob if we could listen. But it didn't end up that way, Rob.

RB: No.

AMT: What happened? Did you use the stethoscope?

PL: No we didn't actually. So what we had done is we sat and we chatted for oh my God, it was hours, right?

RB: Yeah.

PL: I mean I had we had coffee, we had treats and then we had lunch and we had and it was hours. And it was a lovely afternoon. And before we were getting ready to leave, we said well you know why don't we take a few pictures. Right? And Sue, we were joking I don't know how it came about, but Sue said you know why don't you lean your head in on Rob's chest and listen to the heart. Like I do sometimes, like Rob you know sometimes don't have a shirt on. So she said I lean on his chest and I listen to that heart every now and then. And we actually have a piece of tape because as Jodi did that, you recorded it. Let's listen to that.

SOUNDCLIP

RB: Any other circumstance this would be weird.

[Laughter]

RB: It'd be real weird.

[Laughter]

RB: You hear how strong it is? Like you could hear the old one. Any time you need to hear it, just, I could put the telephone up to it.

[Laughter]

AMT: Aww, you could put the telephone up to it. That's so sweet. Rob what was it like for you to make that connection?

RB: Like I said it was weird at first. I mean you know we're standing out in the backyard and I'm unbuttoning my shirt for her to listen. But it's true what I did say about the heart being a lot stronger than my old heart. Now, of course my old heart would have been 60 years old and this one was 20 years old. So it's going to be stronger and it's been what's keeping me alive lately.

AMT: What kind of condition were you in before you got the heart transplant?

RB: I was in bad, bad shape. I'd say five years before the transplant, I was starting to deteriorate pretty good and I quit work because I'm a licensed carpenter and I couldn't do the things that you should be able to do and be able to you know charge money for doing it. And so I stopped doing that and it was a series of things. I was in Kingston Hospital two or three times and then they sent me to Ottawa and then Ottawa sent me to Toronto for the transplant. I had to go six months or so in Toronto and I asked to get stationed back at Ottawa because of its closer for us in Kingston.

AMT: This is after you got the heart recovery?

RB: Yeah. For the recovery, exactly.

AMT: Yeah, but his heart saved your life.

RB: Yeah his heart did save my life.

AMT: How are you feeling now? How's your health?

RB: Heart wise, I'm feeling 100 percent. My heart is working as well as it should. Lke if I was in really good shape and at this age, my heart should be working about 50-55% and that's what it's doing now. So that's, I can't expect any more now. It's working very well.

AMT: Pat what does it mean to you to know it and to see firsthand that Jeff's heart is keeping Rob alive?

PL: There's a lot of things Anna Maria because number one it's the man, okay the individual. I mean my thing was not so much to find Jeff's heart, it was to hear the story. We sat and we heard his story you know and to know that this man, you know like not only his family that meant a lot to him, but also like he mentored young people as they grew up. His friend, you know he has a huge circle of friends, like he's a good man. Right and I'm sorry Rob, talking about you.

RB: You're making me cry now.

PL: Yeah, but I mean at the end of the day it was always about hearing that story, right. And to know that from our side of it, that his heart still beats on to give life to Rob and allow Rob to have. Like we couldn't, Anna Maria, we could not have picked a better man. Like he was a match in so many ways, it wasn't only the organ match. You know.

RB: Don't cry.

AMT: You're gonna make me cry.

PL: The personality, when I hugged him it was almost, you know like Jodi referred to it as feeling at home, but it felt like we automatically connected on a whole different level. And I don't think it was Jeff as much because I don't you know, but when I leaned my ear to Rob's chest because I undid his buttons and his wife laughed as she was taking pictures of another woman undoing his shirt. When I laid my head on his chest, I heard my son, but I felt a good man's arms around me. So as a family that donated organs, we thought at the time it was something good to do. It was you know the right thing to do. It was probably finding a little bit of light in an awful dark period, but you know it's been way more than even we had anticipated. There's a sense of peace that I can't explain.

RB: That's what I was hoping for, Pat. I'm glad you found it.

AMT: I want to back up a bit because when we talked last year Pat, the two of you had exchanged letters, but you didn't know about the person who had Jeff's heart. So in the end, how did you end up finding each other?

PL: So we ended up getting a letter exactly two years to the anniversary of Rob's transplant. So it was just after the weekend of the anniversary of Jeff's passing and in it Rob had left a clue that he had gone, they had Christmas and everybody, but their son from North Bay had been home and Jodie had gone to school in North Bay to fall before that. So we jumped. You know we called CBC because they were helping us at the time and they did a quick interview and then they wrote up an article and posted on CBC website and we just blasted it to everybody we knew in Ontario, to blast it to North Bay. And that was a Friday and Sunday morning Rob, I guess you guys got a call from somebody about the article.

RB: Yeah, my daughter-in-law.

PL: Yeah.

RB: Said there's something really interesting on the internet. You should check it out. I think it has to do with you Rob and so we did and right off the bat I knew it was my letters. I mean obviously I knew what I wrote and then of course the fish at the end of the one letter sort of did it.

AMT: Your love of fish? You could see that in the picture.

RB: Yeah.

AMT: With her holding the letters.

RB: Yeah.

AMT: Did you have any doubts or worries about meeting the family of your donor, Rob?

RB: No. I had no worries about it. I wanted, right off the bat, right from the word go, I wanted to know who they were. I wanted to know where the heart sort of came from like I wanted to.My biggest thing was, was it a male or a female and the second thing would be how old it was and then after that, I mean it's nice to to know that the heart came from a person that had the exact same lifestyle as I do.

AMT: Those similarities between the two of you, the different ages, but those similarities, Pat. That matters, doesn't it?

PL: Yeah because again and like I mean you know, it gives you that piece that if there's anything, that heart's happy. You know, I mean if if he can drop a line in the water a few times a year, you know or be around a group of people laughing and having fun, right?

RB: Yup.

AMT: Then that heart's happy right and that heart now has a purpose. It has a good man to keep alive and that for us is a peace. And I think in a way Rob, it probably from and I can't speak I mean you know your side of it, but from a recipient side, I would think if I'm carrying something I need to know as much about it as possible as part of my healing and you know it possibly can be, but from a family perspective, you know we've all said to you right Rob, like we couldn't have asked for a better guy.

RB: Oh yeah. Yeah.

PL: Go enjoy life and as far as we're concerned, they're like an extension of our family and we will you know eventually meet up and do different things and we'll come up to theirs and meet their extended family and probably haul you guys down to the east coast and show you all Newfoundlound.

RB: I hope to. I hope to for sure.

AMT: There wasn't, you didn't have those expectations necessarily. I mean it could've, like you just don't know, right? There was no control over that.

PL: You have no idea. And there was no, they weren't the expectations at the time. It wasn't about meeting somebody and becoming a fit. You know connected or to anything. I just wanted to know the story.

RB: That was just a big bonus.

PL: Yeah, right.

RB: And It kind of, on the same subject as, I not only got the heart for myself, but it's going to impact my family unbelievably. Like I mean if it wasn't for that heart, I wouldn't be here now talking to you, which means you know my children would be devastated and their children and their children's children and this whole thing's just going to go on and on and on because of the generosity of the Loder family.

AMT: Well I want to ask you Rob because your wife has been with you through this, through your illness, the transplant, the meeting of the families, what's it been like for her?

RB: Hell. She I can't say enough about what she's done. I mean in Ottawa when I was there first, she was there every other day and then when I was in Toronto, that was real chaos there and she was up, she'd stay nights. I mean we're not a very rich family or anything like that, so I mean economically it was hard to do it. I mean we're going back and forth to Kingston pretty much every day.

AMT: What was it like for her to meet Pat and Jodi?

RB: They got along just about as well as Pat and my sister. Yeah she's a pretty easy to get along with girl.

AMT: Pat, we heard how emotional this has been for all of you. You wrote on Facebook, one heart unites two families.

PL: Yeah. Well, we come from a huge family, right? Like from our side of it, which is there's 195 on one side. There's probably that on the other side so and you know as Newfoundland and Labradorians, you know we always take people in under our wing. So like Rob doesn't realize, but he thinks he just you know became a part of a family of three, there's probably about 320 that want to hug him, so he's going to get lots of hugs.

RB: A lot of cold winters in Labrador then I guess?

PL: Absolutely, right.

AMT: A lot of ears on your chest.

PL: But even from our side of it, like Rob's children reached out to each of us and sent messages through Facebook and such. And it's.

RB: They're dying to meet you too, Pat.

PL: Yeah like I mean it's really, it's you can feel the emotion in their messages. You know you saved our dad, you know the grandad for their children. And I mean that's important, like family was big for us and still is. And to know that like these grandchildren still have their grandfather and these children still have their father because of our son.

RB: Yeah. That's big.

PL: It's big, right? The magnitude of it is huge. And you know it's warm, it's nice, it's humanity at its best.

AMT: Pat I know that you know it's still not that long ago that that Jeff died. How does that affect your whole process of grieving and your family's process of grieving?

PL: Our grief is still the same. You know you miss him. You will, you know. Like it doesn't change the grief and I said this right from the get go and I always thought it would, you know it would never change the grieve. But there's a sense of peace like after we met that day, for a week after or two weeks after, like you know some would say it was a high, but it wasn't. I mean we cried much more. We did. I mean we grieved, we lost because you can't do one without the other. Right? I mean we cried in Sue's sunroom, you know talking about Jeff. I mean and you guys cried as well, but you can't do one without the other. But there was a warm, there was a peace, that all wasn't lost and that there was something good that came out of something really, really horrible. And we give, I mean you know we give the Buttles the distance to live their lives. I mean we don't want to be fully immersed, you know, but I mean at the end of the day, it's really, really. If you can, donating organs is not going to hurt you. It will help you. It won't change your grieving process, but it will give you a ray of hope out there that life can be a little bit beautiful in something that's not beautiful, right?

AMT: What would you say to other families who are connected by the transplant of a loved one's organ?

RB: Pat you go ahead.

PL: Sure, yeah. One of the things I would say is that every province should change the legislation. If you have two consenting adults, you know we were lucky. Right? We were you know I was a pitbull on this and Jodi helped because of the social media side of it, but we were lucky to find Rob so quick. But every province should change their legislation, there's no reason to have this legislation in place that if you didn't have two consenting adults then that's fine. But if you had two consenting adults that wanted to meet, I think it should be encouraged and able. It helps on the healing for both families.

AMT: Robert, do you have anything to add to that?

RB: I'm just saying that my thoughts are very similar to Pat's. Now I think in some instances, there might be some problems. Because I mean everybody is different and they accept grief differently and and on and on. But I think once it's been accepted that both people have talked to each other through the mail and are in agreement to at least talk in person, I think they should be allowed to.

AMT: And I guess your families are are an example of the good that can come out of this.

RB: Exactly.

AMT: Despite the protectiveness of the various jurisdictions.

RB: Yeah. I mean you can't pick the heart or the family that you're getting the heart from, but they're a perfect family and they seem to like me, OK. So I think we're all right.

AMT: He's right about that, huh Pat?

PL: You got that buddy.

AMT: I have a feeling you made a lot of people smile today you too.

RB: I hope so. I hope so and I hope they donate, if they can.

AMT: Thank you for sharing your stories.

RB: OK.

AMT: Thank you so much.

RB: Alright.

PL: Thank you for everything, Anna Maria.

RB: Talk to you later, Pat.

PL: Alright buddy. Have a safe trip back.

RB: OK. Same to you. Bye now.

AMT: Pat Loder joined us from St. John's. Robert Buttle is in Ottawa. He is the transplant recipient of Pat's son's heart.

[Music]

AMT: That's our program for today. Stay tuned to Radio One for Q. After hearing from Pat Loder and Robert Buttle, we'll leave you with Neil Young and Heart of Gold. I'm Anna Maria Tremonti. Thank you for listening to The Current.

[Song: "Heart of Gold" by Neil Young]

The Current Transcript for September 23, 2018

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'His heart still beats strong to give life': How an organ donation united 2 families

Oct. 23, 2018 episode transcript

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